The Case for Revolution (w/Richard Wolff)
In this conversation we discuss—and make the case for—revolutionary change in the 21st century.
In this conversation, Richard Wolff and I explore—and make the case for—the idea of revolution. Here are some excerpts:
On Taboo Words and Revolutionary Thinking
Eskow:
"Revolution is another one of those terms that... if you say, ‘I want to see revolutionary change,’ people say, ‘You’re not serious, right?’ Even though human history has been changed dramatically by revolutions, we’ve reached a point where we believe it’s mythical, fantastical, impossible."
Wolff:
"I’m reacting against the idea that ‘revolution’ is a bad word that I shouldn’t say or think. That gets me upset—and I want to use it all the more because of that."
Reform vs. Revolution
Wolff:
"Fighting for a higher minimum wage is a reform... like getting a better diet for the slave. Abolishing slavery? That’s revolutionary."
"Revolutionaries are not against reform. They want to go further. Reformists, however, paint revolutionaries as threatening progress."
Eskow:
"Incrementalism has become an ideology of its own in the Democratic Party—a value system divorced from transformative goals.”
Wolff:
"Revolution has no necessary connection to violence. That linkage is often made by people frightened of revolution, using violence as a reason to oppose it."
· Eskow:
"Trump and the MAGA movement are revolutionary in their own way—funded by elites like Musk and the Kochs, who seek radical, regressive transformations."
Critique of the Left
Wolff:
"Bernie and AOC are reformers, not revolutionaries—yet even they face hostility from a Democratic Party that fears systemic alternatives."
· Eskow:
"The Koch brothers went from printing lunatic pamphlets in 1970 to guiding U.S. political discourse. The right isn’t afraid of thinking big—why is the left?"
Historical Context
Wolff:
"When John Brown said, ‘We’re not here to get a better diet for the slave—we’re here to abolish slavery,’ that was revolutionary. Reform addresses symptoms; revolution cures the disease."
Please listen and let me know your thoughts.